DISCLAIMER: The opinions and comments of individual franchisees expressed herein are solely the opinions of those individual franchisees and do not necessarily state or reflect the opinions of the Owners 8 Association or its attorneys. The information in this website is the sole property of the Owners 8 Association and any duplication or reprint cannot be made without the express written consent of Owners 8 Association.
Other Owners' Comments:
All the owners show similar concerns and all feel there is a need to form an association that will help develop a relationship of give and take between the franchisor and motel owners. Super 8 is a great economy brand and everyone feels that we need to preserve this great chain of economy motels. We must create an environment where the franchisees and the franchisor have continued interest in development and advancement of the brand. We must unite and help create meaningful communication between Wyndham and ourselves. This will only be accomplished as a united group.
Owners 8 Association
SOFTHOTEL Owner Comments:
SoftHotels is a web-based PMS with the the estimated cost for each property will be between $14,000 to $19,000 with a additional ongoing monthly software support fee of $125 to $350. The only interfaces available are for Southern Data Comm credit card integration and for mitel SX-200 and above. It does not allow key card terminal, movie rental systems, POS (vending), and other interfaces that are essential to running a motel in today's industry. But how do they justify such large costs. So they are telling me that after spending around $16,0000 for the system I will have to pay another $1,500 to $4,200 each year for software support. Choice Advantage, a property management system for choice hotel brands of econo lodge and roadway inns, has a web base PMS that they deployed recently and they only how to pay $100 per monthly and no up front hardware and software purchasing costs. I have emailed my DBD and FSM about this issue with no response. With any modern property management system all the above mentioned interfaces would be available. Also I would like to mention that softHotels is critically flawed, just go to the PM support page and a very long list of known issues are stated with no solutions just workarounds. http://hoteltechsupport.shotel.cendant.com/ , this link only works from your property workstation computer connected to the wyndham network. I think Wyndham is just doing softHotels to compete with Choice, but is trying to profit from it. I was also told that we need to purchase new computer equipment for softhotels, but if it is web based, then is it not local computer equipment independent? I think the cost of SoftHotels is widely inflated. Currently we are paying $105 a month for the software maintenance of HSS. They have also added the additonal of any property management system into the rules of Operations and Design, which opens the door to future costs.
TRIPREWARDS Owner Comments:
Rather than pluck at the leaves, (qualifying rate plans etc. or trying to correct other unethical ways that Wyndham is administring the Trip Rewards Program) why not try and hit at the root. (Wyndham has no moral, legal basis to keep the proceeds collected for unclaimed points).
Two years ago I had done some research on Trip Rewards program; my findings were as below:
a) The profit to Cendant on Trip Rewards is about 60% i.e. basically the money that comes in is spent by Wyndham to manage the program and to give out rewards. The profit will lie in the points that are not redeemed by guests in 3 years, which as per the findings from various other similar programs is in between 55%-65%, which will become the property of Wyndham.
b) I feel that there are state and federal laws under which Wyndham must return the sums/points collected and not redeemed either be returned to the franchisees from whom they were collected or should be turned over to the federal/state govt. as unclaimed property.
c) I do not know if all of you are aware or not, but every state has a law where if you issue a check and the check is not cashed in 3 years, the proceeds of the check must be turned over to the state govt. where they make some attempt to find the person to whom the money is owed, and if they cannot find him/her, the money becomes the property of the state.
d) This law/situation however does not apply to airlines, since they are paying for the points from their pocket and not charging the customer or franchisee as in Wyndham's case.
e) In these days of budget shortages/deficits, if this was presented well to the state/feds by a good attorney/law firm, there is a strong possibility that the state and feds would be very interested in pursuing it.
f) If such a thing were to come about, Wyndham would lose all interest in the program and stop.
I am a person of legal bent of mind, but just do not have the time, finances and resources to take on Wyndham.
Thanks
Vikram Bhartia, MN
As I have mentioned before, we also operate a Days Inn, along with our Super 8's.
My Days Inn Trip rewards bill last month was $967.15 based on 19343.01 in Trip reward billed revenue. After my manager reviewed the statement and removed all those checkin's that DID NOT HAVE A TRIPREWARDS # attached to their folio the bill came to $274.17 based on 5483.47 in Trip rewards billing. The difference is 72%. That means that only 28% of the points that they billed me were correct according to cross reference with HSS at my property. They must have the TR numbers at HQ and the guests are completely unaware of their membership. At least that's how they will spin it if you ask them. I will only pay the valid amounts according to my PMS system.
My commision bill was 1326.22, once I verified the double billings and overrides the bill was reduced by 281.97. That means that I was overbilled by 21.2%. The correct bill is 1044.25.
Check your bills, Check your bills, Check your bills. Can't say it enough. Now that I know how they are operating these extra fees, it definately appears questionable. Once you review and find similar irregularities let me know. We can compile this information for future reference.
Jay Patel
If u (or guest ) are not going to use TR card, mark it on the folio. Check your TR report from myportal for accuracy. Dispute any BS charges.
TR still continues to generate #'s automatically, hoping that properties will give points and they can then charge 5%. Just 2 days ago, I rcv'd a reservation, followed by a change, only thing different was this time TR# was added on. When she checked in my wife asked her if she has TR card her reply was "I am not a memebr of TR and do not know what TR is" So, remember just because TR# is on the reservation you do not have to automatically award points, always ask the guest to show the card and the truth will surface. If guest wants to signup, tell them about non-qualifing rate and most of the time they'll take additional discount. This will save the headache of feeding info in system and put a dent on TR.
by the way we must include this on our agenda-- currently S8 says that wether guest presents a card or not we have to award poits, we need to change it where they must present the card each time, if they are waiting for their card they must let the desk clerk know. Also, max time TR can back to previous stay should be only two weeks. It seems like currently, they go back long ways. Also, they say discount cards such as ssr, s3a, gov must be presented, why not TR card?
Current methods used by TR is solely in their favor and it's in place so they can cheat.
Manny
After reading your e-mail about TR billing, I went three months back and saw who presented the trip rewards card at time of check in. I found out that in August 21 person did not present TR upon check in. The revenue was $1225.50 and 5% of that is $61.28 lost in revenue. In Sepetember 11 people did not peresent TR upon check in. The revenue was $542.00 and 5% of that is $27.10 lost in revenue. In October 7 person did the same thing. The revenue was $725.05 and 5% of that is $36.26. In October they charge me for one room that did not even exist in the system. The folio number they provided me is 998 and that is not my folio number start out with. I called several time to the TR billing inquries about this matter and no one has contacted me. I don't know what to do at this point. I hope none of the other members having the same problem I'm going through. Please check your TR billing online. I understand guest call in 800 number to notify TR number after they check out but that many in a month is not right. There is something fishy going on. We need to have proof that guest have called in to give their TR number.
Owner from Arkansas
Jay,you are doing outstanding job. I own lot of Holiday Inn and Fairfield Inn and I never see this problem. I 100% agree with you that if gst do not show TR card should not get point and how it is in all other brand. We all need to act quickly to save this money and I with you for full support. I will support by giving time and any monetory also.Owner from Missouri
I have all my desk clerks ask all checkins if they have Triprewards. Those
who say no and don't want to sign up, I have used a code at the top of the
folio of the HSS software which blocks any use of the Triprewards card. If
the guest has their Triprewards card and they want to use it for their stay,
I don't allow any discounts. Telling the guest who wants to use their
Triprewards card, that I want them to get the most points for their stay!
But, if they choose not to use their Triprewards card here, I will honor
their discount.
Now, for the codes.
I had asked my FSM, if my motel could have our own special codes to use
for, say very long staying guests, my direct bill customers who use us a
lot, for special discounts for special days and he said, yes. All my motel
codes would start with: LS. He said these codes must be four letters long,
must not conflict with the Franchisors discount codes and if we use our
special motel codes for guests, Triprewards would not be honored. So I asked
him to further explain about what he had meant about these restrictions.
The Triprewards member will not receive any points from their stay if I use
my code on their folio.
So, I use my code, LSTP for all guests who have no Triprewards membership,
don't want to sign up, and wants the discount instead of the points.I haven't had any
problems with over billing.
GM from Colorado
In response to the problem of trip rewards and Walk-In guests,The answer is YES, Trip Rewards automatically enrolls walk-ins into the program.I have a Guest that I check in myself every time they come. And NEVER have I enrolled them in to the TR program.I logged onto Myportal | TripRewards | edesk | Reports: and printed out all earning reports of guests, on a month to month basis, from the beginning of this calendar year of 2007. I personally know that many of my guests walk-in or reservations have NOT enrolled, but some how magically appear on this list.The TR program must be making a pretty fat penny, if ALL of the Wyndham properties are being charged this way.
Owner from Texas
Probably most of these customers are not even aware that they have trip rewards to use. Probably a big percentage of the people enrolled will never redeem these rewards. I've felt from the start of this program that it was just something to fatten Wyndhams pockets. I also have an AmericInn and they have a program, but with that we don't pay until the customer redeems their rewards.
Owner from the Midwest
Thanks to Jay and others for their time and hard work for this association. I am available anytime to help the association. We are being charged $60 for customer complaints cases plus being fined. I just spoke to G.M. hot line, and they didn't even know how they calculate the $60.00 processing fees. She mentioned me that maybe it’s calculate based upon last years room occupied. That is totally wrong. In the world we are living, 1000 occupied room per each complain processing allotment is not fair. Smaller properties will hit hard. Budget franchise like us, will get more complains. Since they're running customer complain dept. on our Royalties, then why they are charging us additional fees. If they do, then it should be minimum ($10-$20). It’s not taking them 2 hours to process and record the case. They are ripping us off here. I agree and strongly recommend that all owners should reject implementation of SOFTHOTEL PMS roll out. I have just checked my Trip rewards statement for last month and, 40% of the guest folios did not have their membership number on it. I called Trip rewards dept. and they mentioned that if the guest becomes member, they qualify for their previous 30 days stay. We should stop this. I have a 55 Room property and, my last month Trip rewards invoice is over $1000.00. At the time of check-in or check-out, if the guest becomes member or provide us their number, they should qualify for their points. Once they check-out from the hotel and becomes member then they should not be credited for the previous stay. These guys might be making them a member of Trip rewards, and then once 5% charges recover from us, then they can delete those memberships. Few folios I had discovered, has only 0000000k numbers. I am going to stop paying them for Trip rewards charges, until we can come up with some kind of resolution. I encourage each owners to do the same.
Owner from California
Other Owner Comments:
I am a relatively new operator, this Super 8 being my first motel which we bought 3 years ago, and fully support the formation of an owner’s group. What many of you are saying is true as I have noticed that in the 3 years that I have owned this motel operating costs are increasing year over year. I remember hearing at the conference that the signage is going to be redesigned which on top of software upgrades, in-room upgrades, etc. is further going to cost us the operator more.
Jignesh Patel, KY
Comments : I really like the idea of owners standing up against the Corporation and forming an association. However, I have no faith or expectations whatsoever from the corporation. I can briefly explain why and also give my suggestion on how to hit them hard and get their attention ASAP. In 2003 during Diwali time a QA inspector from the franchise office visited my property in Waconia, Minnesota . He had got lost on the way from another inspection and went more than 200 miles the wrong direction. That?s why on his arrival he wasn?t too happy and took out his frustration on us. The next day he started his inspection and while evaluating the results he made some racially prejudiced comments. He said people come here from India especially Patel's where they have no business or business experience, and upon arriving in U.S.A immediately you people buy franchise motels. For this reason we must inspect the properties very carefully. Regarding this issue I contacted the franchise office and talked to several managers and executives. Nobody was able to take any action or take the issue of an ignorant inspector seriously. I tried to go through a lawyer also but to go against big corporations isn't easy. There were other issues about the corporation which were bothering me before this had happened. So out of frustration and being disregarded repeatedly I stopped making franchise payments and fees. My property has been suspended since 2004 and we haven?t received any reservations ever since. But in 2006 I was negotiating with the franchise office and tried to work something out to renew our relationship. So during that time I was talking with a franchise executive Joe Stokes, who at the time seemed really friendly and helpful. He made a verbal agreement with me that if I pay $16,000 of the outstanding fees he will activate the property and set up a payment plan for rest of the amount. So I paid the specified amount and expected to have my property active and receive reservations. Apparently Joe Stokes backed out of the verbal agreement after he received the payment and I was back in the same standstill. I believe that all the owners need to unite and start a revolution. Let the corporation know that if they don't take the owners into consideration than everyone will stop making franchise payments and fees. How many people are they going to go after or keep up with legally?
Anonymous
Let me know how I can help. I agree with the many comments I am reading about Wyndham's initiatives that cost us money and disproportionally benefit Wyndham's profits and not the motel owners. We need a much more powerful voice in our livelihoods and investments.
Jeff Whitlow, GA
You can count on our support to form this association. We should all come together and let them know that it hurts when we are just trying to meet the expenses every month and regardless
of our circumstances we still have to pay their 8.5% royalty fees and the added unneccessary expenses, because they want us to be like other higher brand standard motels, which we are not, because in the eyes of our guests we are just another economy motel "Super 8 Motel".
Chiman and Maya Maru, MS
Hello to everyone, we have tried to work with Super 8 and all you get is no where!! The upgrades are very costly and the revenue has gone down!! We want to be apart of this association! Count us in!!
Marie & Joe Schwarz, MI
It's about time we spoke up and demanded our fair rights. What will wyndham come up with next? The madness must stop!
James Kwon, CO
We are interested in joining the association so that our voice can be heard.
Stanley Weilert, KS
Not only I will very strongly support this formation, but I am also willing to actively volunteer and help this association take off. I am sure every owner has some issues and lot of those issues are common. I am sure that we can and will get satisfactory solutions to our problems if we unite our voices. Lot of unfair practices are already mentioned and here are some more- what about $800.00 for photos (for those with 'c' or lower) now a days anyone can shoot high res photos with digital camera. I pay $163/mo for 'DIRECWAY' which is five times slower and 3 times more expensive then Cox’s cable modem- not to mention much more vulnerable to weather than cable modem. And so many more......I am sure together we can write a whole book on this. But here is the thing guys, Jim Sweeney tried do this and for whatever reason let it collapse.
WE MUST ACT PEOPLE; OTHERWISE WE ARE NOTHING BUT DOGS WHO ONLY KNOW HOW TO BARK.
WE NEED TO DECIDE WHO WE WANT TO BE!!!!!!!!Please feel free to call me, e-mail me,
stop by and talk to me whatever works for you.
********SUGGESTION*********
We should prepare a list (I’ve already started this with my name on it) of everyone who is serious and really interested. Try to meet at a centralized location and discuss the future. Imagine- this could be the 1st meeting of a successful association that can help owners for
years to come.
Thank you
Manny Patel, AR
I understand that Wyndham World wide is a corporation intent on making money, that is not wrong, but also I believe that the franchisee's must band together to let our concerns be heard before
our profit margin declines further.
Polly Horn, Group Manager, Interstate Lodging - KY & WV
I am strongly agree to form owner association. Will be ready to do any help needed for that.
Yogesh Patel, GA
I will help bring some super 8 motel owners to join this association.
Manu Patel - IL
I am very willing to commit my time, money and aggressive support to the formation of Owners
Marjorie Beg - FL
I love to be part of this organization you have my support all the way
Victor Solia - IL
installation of new brilliant system cost $15000+ and still not functioning they constantly upgrading. we had MSI system before. unduly and mandatory of programs and changes are brought
with any resevervations.we need to address the problems collectivly to achieve our goals.
Josh Patel, TX
We are fed up with Wyndham. We own a single small Super 8 and are having difficulty surviving the continuous added costs.
Duane Saeter, MN
Thank you for making a difference. I am interested in what you have to say. I think many of us appear to already be on the same track. I do not agree with the frivolous spending and expectations of Wyndham, but would be happy with the idea of trying to create a "minimum standard" required so each property represents an "economy" hotel. If someone isn't keeping a "minimum standard" that also hurts those of us who try to run clean and updated motel. We can't just let our properties become run down and uncared for, this also would not be good for our guests or our Super 8
reputation. I am not happy with Wyndham, but do agree with creating an "ECONOMY minimum standard".
I would be interested in being part of the represented.
Jayni Bearson, WI
This is a great idea. In fact, I have been cooking this idea for long. Thank you, Jay, for this job. The current Super 8 company is greedy in management and insolent in service. I told my manager not
to call the so-called " area representative" long time ago since he was so arrogant and rude. What they want is just their 8.5% franchise fee. The rest, they care the least and last. Let us unite together and voice our concern and make our business profitable for our family, not the big shark.
Charles Jia , MO
Have each Super 8 Owner within each state meet with others in that state to nominate two deligates who represent the majority views and concerns of those owners within their state, to go to the National Association held before or after the National Super 8 Convention meeting. I'm a core person. Let me know how I can help. Don't forget about their SOO, SOT, SOE rates coming up. Don't forget the "Traveling Vouchers" for just Wyndham Employees only, that is employees that get paid directly by Wyndham. They get 60% off our motels rates, we don't. I think no one should.
Ben Lutes, CO
I agree with your wholeheartedly and suggest we spread the word around and then oncewe have enough people, we stop them from imposing the unnecessary expenditure on Super 8 owners.
Sharat Gupta, KS
I am with everyone as mentioned, that if we (indp. owners) don't do anything than there is no one else going to make difference for us. Let's get the ball rolling and try to get the message out to the corporate office of S8 or WHG.
Sam Patel, KY
Another thing about Wyndham, not only have they increased all of our cost they have limited out additional revenues which we desperately need. I come from a background of full service hotels, and we used to really be able to increase our "ADR" with all the "extras". The reason that Wyndham has cut all these avenues of revenue, is that they don't collect royalties on the fees. So we have experienced a double whammy of increase in cost and decrease in revenue. We don't have a lot of avenues for additional revenues, but this is what I have lost in the last few years:
Phone Revenue - $20,000 per year is what I used to collect. This paid for my phone service for the motel and my cells phone for my key personnel.
Wireless Internet - We Have had wireless Internet for a while. We were able to charge $5 per day ( a $5 increase in ADR is BIG) Also, for our better customers we waived the fee, and now they felt like they were special and getting something free. I only collected $2500 in a year, but we were just getting started when the big fist of Wyndham came down and demanded that we do it for free. Go figure.
Cribs - I am not opposed to giving cribs away, but because we don't get any revenue off of this product, we don't replace it very often, and lets just say I wouldn't let my child sleep in most free cribs in any hotel, from Economy to Full Service. If we have something we have to buy, keep up, put in a room, store during non use, keep clean, we should be able to charge for it.
Rollaway's - These cause a lot of damage in my small rooms, people hit the furniture with them, I don't like having to have them, No more than two people need to be in my rooms, because of the size, I would rather try to sell them connecting rooms.
We need additional ways to collect this type of revenue, especially because it is free from the 8% royalty fee and the 4% room tax fee. While this isn't all the money in the world, in the last couple of years we have lost about $30,000 in additional revenue, and every little bit helps. My point to this entire topic is that Wyndham doesn't care about his revenue because it doesn't help them. There are other ways for Wyndham to make money besides bleeding us to death. If our franchises were profitable, they would be able to charge the big fees for the purchase of a Franchise, if they were collection $250,000 for a Franchise that was profitable, maybe they wouldn't be trying to bleed us, but because we are not that profitable, they can't sell it for that much money. It is one big vicious circle, we need a company that can help us while helping themselves.
Lisa Lunsford, NC
